Tribe.net. Local Connections $item.owner.firstName http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#e200ee22-63ca-464c-8e01-f42ec50ddc3e 2005-05-08T02:21:19Z 2005-05-08T02:21:19Z

Here here....I'm afraid so...

$item.owner.firstName 2005-05-08T02:21:19Z B http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#3bdd56ac-c655-465b-84ff-76d6786e672b 2005-05-08T02:20:10Z 2005-05-08T02:20:10Z

When was the last really good justified revolution? I say the French Revolution. The US revolution was just the first economic revolution. It was a revolt fought by the servants for the landowners. What we need is another French Revolution. Off with their heads.

B 2005-05-08T02:20:10Z arize http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#0d76797a-4cb0-4e00-a6cd-98de960372ca 2005-05-07T00:32:31Z 2005-05-07T00:32:31Z

im just saying that a coup and an revolution are quite different, cause in a coup you get a turn over of power, a take over or a hand over, but no real change in the system itself.

arize 2005-05-07T00:32:31Z B http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#9e352867-d036-474b-a08a-288eb1abbd3f 2005-05-06T16:55:12Z 2005-05-06T16:55:12Z

i don't think that the neo-cons and religious right have overthrown anything fundamental.> I disagree. I do believe that there has been a revolution or maybe more exact a coup. The takeover of government can be traced to a large degree by the SUN-PAC legislation that allowed corporate political action committees to fund elections. Since that time the politicians have become bought and paid for by corporations. Who is the most willing to listen to the corporate masters and leash the population? Notice the Republicans have and are increasing their lock on power. What has happened is every bit a coup without the guns and bombs.

B 2005-05-06T16:55:12Z arize http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#fa14c1c8-4650-4c27-9ec4-abbb487c4e0c 2005-05-05T21:51:18Z 2005-05-05T21:51:18Z

revolution seems to have many meanings. in my book a revolution is the overthrow of ruling system. the complete overthrow of an old system in order to build a new one. as far as i can see we are not yet in a state of revolution but rather in a state of building towards one. of course what we do now is part of that revolution, but its not the revolution in it self. historically what we call revolution is a violent and not very gradual kind of thing. sure, there have been some that take a while, use a more protracted form of fighting over more years. but generally speaking, its violent and not gradual. certainly this is not what we are doing at the moment. i think also we have to ask what does "overthrow" mean or rather, what is it that is being overthrown. name the ill. i don't think that the neo-cons and religious right have overthrown anything fundamental. maybe there's been a kind of take over. but its all been in the interests of maintaining imperialism, all of it. there has not been a revolution of one system by another in this country for hundreds of years. anyway, so i think we are all part of that build up and what we now counts. just the process is a longer one historically speaking. i think im gonna go read a bunch of books about revolutions because i really want to understand how they work cuase its a serious question and we aren't the first and i hope to learn a thing or two from how its been tried in the past. anyone care to join me?

arize 2005-05-05T21:51:18Z $item.owner.firstName http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#ab5ceb44-15fe-4eab-ae02-49d9c3065b2f 2005-05-04T01:29:01Z 2005-05-04T01:29:01Z

This is where I always wonder....to make it simple, lets say there are us, the liberals, and the conservatives, who entail the corporate whores, Neo-Cons, and Religious right... We fight and fight and fight against them...every now and then, lets say in the past 25 years since the Neo-Cons and Religious Right have been the most successful with their overthrow of America, only 8 of those years btw didn't see a Bush in the White House....anyway, we fight and fight and fight and every now and then, we successfully defend ourselves, and keep them from taking complete control...but what does this do? They're really good at what they do....what they do is destroy. Destroy lives, destroy the class structure, destroy the environment, destroy people, destroy political careers, and destroy rights.... When we win, its not really "winning" in my eyes, its more like a delay.....(but not Tom DeLay, we all lose with him...)....Clinton was merely a delay of the Bush Family/Neo-Con Agenda....and Clinton only won by "luck"....I bet a thousand dollars that if H.W. Bush had won, what we're doing in Iraq now would have happened in the 90s.... So, the doublethink/cognitive dissonance comes in and says...if our struggle against them is more than likely in vain....should we not change our attack strategy? Go off the grid, let them have control, absolute control...and watch society collapse because of them...stop delaying the inevitable....of course, the flip side of that, as I realize, is that as much hope is placed on the recreation....allowing for such chaos and destruction to occur is, in itself, rather spiteful and cynical, if not evil in and of itself...but you know...they're not going to stop until they get what they want....and eventually, they will get what they want...we need to figure out a way to use their own lust against them.... I dunno.....

$item.owner.firstName 2005-05-04T01:29:01Z B http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#6be89c2b-f843-4aa2-b583-564fbdf18456 2005-05-04T00:38:06Z 2005-05-04T00:38:06Z

It won’t come until things get so desperate that there is no other choice for the people. The government and corporations have such a lock on power that they will crush any small attempt to change the system There are plenty of examples of our intervention in other governments and internal to the US as well. So it will be a long slow decline which if slow enough will just drive people to despair but not action. Or if swift enough will generate an uprising.

B 2005-05-04T00:38:06Z $item.owner.firstName http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#cff7ae63-f628-472f-83f0-64500df7d498 2005-05-03T02:50:18Z 2005-05-03T02:50:18Z

My thought is...what if there was a large group of Americans...or several large groups across the nation that worked together and wrote a new Declaration of Independance...say, a movement in cities...I mean, we're being taxed and not represented in our government...our government is overrun by corporations....it would have to be a movement of literally millions....what to do on a realistic level...that is the question...because we aren't going to get anywhere trying to work with the system..I used to think we could....

$item.owner.firstName 2005-05-03T02:50:18Z Tedster http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#6fbc17b2-e78b-4d8c-a1eb-744e68899e45 2005-05-03T02:16:11Z 2005-05-03T02:16:11Z

I would agree, with MadHatR. It is a little of both Fad and Fact. and we do go through periods were we would have to face a lull. I've been slowly reading The Peoples History of the United States; everything that we take for granted, whether it is the right of speech, voting, education, and equality, all have to do with struggles that have occurred over many critical points in time. We may never see the revolution that we would like to have, so we also have to fight for little things as well as big, and keep it coming. I think we have to pull the plug on what influences the government by not supporting them, and do what ever we can to declare independence from corporations. People do have some disgust with the system, even conservatives do. People often don't know were to direct there energy, and they often get distracted by faux solutions. Take Arnold's handling of the Minutemen for example. He is dipping in the polls, in California, because people don't like what his proposals have been, so he then diverts peoples attention with immigration issues. GW Bush has done this with Iraq. His strongest support from voters is from what he is doing in Iraq. His support is weaker in everything else. I think I can safely say that everybody in this tribe doesn't feel threaten by migrants, and we know that Bush is a liar about WMDs and Sadams connection with Al Queda. but he's fooled a lot of stupid people in this country.

Tedster 2005-05-03T02:16:11Z $item.owner.firstName http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#450af430-26a1-40dd-a9ce-c0752b09366d 2005-05-02T18:19:43Z 2005-05-02T18:19:43Z

I would say Fad and Fact. For the young, rebellion is a fad. So much energy, so much ideology...but little direction...which means that there is a lot of emotion, but no clear manner to express it...so, its a fad, the young talk of rebellion..it has to be done...but no one knows how to truely start it...and no one wants to face the consequences...But has history has shown, there is a breaking point...eventually an action comes along, a person, a travesty that is the match to start the fire of revolution...when all those who viewed it as a fad say, "this is our time, this is our calling." I am surprised that the American society, for the large part, hasn't found that individual or action to rally behind....but, then again, we're kept in the dark and obese with our corporate media and fast food...we're satiated....so that person or action will no doubt come nearly too late....the curse of modernity....we're too comfortable in our servitude....

$item.owner.firstName 2005-05-02T18:19:43Z $item.owner.firstName http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#a77459f4-9d31-4d69-817f-576e7ae39906 2005-05-02T16:00:14Z 2005-05-02T16:00:14Z

life blood here.

$item.owner.firstName 2005-05-02T16:00:14Z $item.owner.firstName http://WorldAwarenessRevolution.tribe.net/thread/20aba7d2-0983-4b6b-b8d0-e60131445bc4#d5620fed-bd28-4418-8d42-fc3f06db5c51 2005-04-12T23:12:06Z 2005-04-12T23:12:06Z

There is a lot of talk these days about revolution, about social change, about reclaiming the world for the people. Not those corporation who buy and sell good, services and people at will, but for those who are truly the pieces of the puzzle that make our society run. The common person. People who want the right to believe as they wish, to make choices for their own lives, and be free to express themselves openly. To live in relative comfort and provide for themselves and their families without selling their souls to corporate devils and make a living as a wage slave. These are those who deserve to run and be society. Mostly these are the people that are talking about change. But, is the revolution real? There are literally tens of thousands of chat groups, websites, blogs and even social groups talking about social revolution. I see people with bumper stickers, buttons and t-shirts at every turn pronouncing their desire for this change and their dissatisfaction with our society in it's present form. In many place there are educational seminars, films and meetings taking place. There is also still a meager showing of anti-war, anti-Bush protesters around on occasions. There is also limited boycotts taking place. But is this enough to be a revolution? Is anything truly being accomplished? What has changed? Of all those who claim to want change, how many are truly dedicated to achieving it? How many are willing to make sacrifices today so that we all can have a better tomorrow? Honestly I don't see it. I see some who are true to the idea but most I feel many talk the talk because it's the latest fad. It's cool to be a revolutionary or anarchist or progressive or whatever the person wants to consider themselves. I not just talking about the teenager in the Che t-shirt, but also the adult with the "No Blood For Oil" bumper sticker. I read much about direct action, but see none. Then there are those who feel that only through education can there be change. Others who believe we must vote changes into being. These people obviously don't read history. Education has always been the root of social change but alone has never changed anything. Voting has never changed a thing in this country. It wasn't voting that got women equal rights nor did voting get minorities the rights they now have. Only those who have stood up in direct defiance of corrupt authority have made change. Only leaders who risked everything to bring about change actually achieved it. Where are these leaders now? Where are those willing to take risks to make change? Do any of these people exist? Will change ever happen or in another couple years will it all go back underground existing in a few social circles of a small percentage of the population that care about humanity as a whole. These are questions that must be asked and the answers can change the course of the cause of justice and freedom. Now I have read the posts and websites form those pacifist and "politeness police" types who claim that we must respect those on the side of the Fundamentalist /NeoCons and their beliefs. I don't think respecting their right to believe what they believe means respecting their right to push their beliefs on society as a whole or their right to try and legislate their beliefs. Extreme beliefs require extreme measures. Doesn't it ring true that because of their narrow, close-minded viewpoints they will never accept any type of peaceful resolution. Should the world have come to a peaceful resolution with Hitler, Stalin or Napoleon? Aren't there beliefs and actions just as extreme and oppressive? Will the cowards in the KKK or Neo-Nazi ever come to a peaceful resolution with minorities? The answer is no. It is true that change will only come with people fighting on many levels from education, voting and boycotts to direct intervention on the part of the people. We must be bold, and willing to take risks or else forget it and let them destroy society, the planet and create an ownership class that includes owning people. So is the movement about making real change and carrying out real social revolution or is it just a passing fad that will change when the next hip thing comes along?

$item.owner.firstName 2005-04-12T23:12:06Z